Conan – A Little Conversation About The Frost Giant’s Daughter

conan

Thank you all for taking the time to read the short piece. I just wish people would be more open about their opinions. ;-).  Considering the actively voracious nature of some of the comments, both here and on the REH site, I thought I would maybe expand a little bit on what I was trying to do.  I am going to do this because I think you might be interested in the screenwriting process and why some decisions are made in adaptations. I’m trying not to write defensively, which trust me, is difficult. I’ll try to keep it pure, ’cause we’re all Conan fans here.

As I said, my intent was practice, but what I had in my mind was actually writing what I fantasized might become a teaser scene for one of the new movies, released as an extended trailer or as a pre-title sequence. This means I was really aiming for something very short. It could only be a couple of minutes long. I chose FGD because I felt it could be condensed most easily. This is because the action is simple: a fight, a chase, a fight, an escape. (I know there’s more to it, but those are the basics)

So now I say to myself – what is essential? Obviously many of you disagree, but in THIS INCARNATION of the story – a very short film – I felt that the opening battle was not needed to tell what I thought was the most interesting part – Conan being tempted by Atali, chasing her, fighting her brothers then having his prize taken from him. What convinced me of this was that I was going to get a marvelous battle with the FGs anyway. So that rendered the opening fight extraneous. As for information, do we really need to clock that Conan is a stranger in this land? Not really. He’s merely the survivor of a battle. In this incarnation, do we really need to know anything about the battle itself?

A few people commented on the sword in his belly rather than being bonked on the head. Those are purist thoughts and while I understand them, they are really just staging. All one needs is for Conan to be out of it for a moment so Atali can have the upper hand.  Without a battle, woozy was difficult.  Unconscious was boring.  I decided on badly wounded. The sword just seemed very cool to me, as I imagined a low angle shot across his body and the blade sticking tall from the wound. And I can show Conan being tough by freezing the wound shut.  (However, I take very well the point that Conan would have had a big reaction to Atali toying with the sword.)

Also the ending is not as graceful as I might like. Too rushed, a result of not thinking out clearly how to get the impact of the cloth without Niord’s dudes.

In matters of dialogue, I might very well choose to add back in some of REH’s words, especially “Conan of the Black Hair”, and “I’ll pile the heads of your kinsmen…” etc.  I can’t tell you why I chose not to put them in at the time, except, well… let me think.

No, that’s not true. I can. And it goes to why I wanted to practice on this one. To me, FGD has always been about mood, not plot. The wildness of the landscape, the breath in the wind, Atali’s impossible beauty. Its essence seems purely poetic to me. And, it has its roots in Greek mythology, which I devoured as a child. I think that as I wrote it, the dialogue fell out because I was seeing it from middle and long distances. It seemed more magical without words. And this is the great difference between the stories and a film – REH has to give you everything – all the feeling, the emotion, the sound of the snow. A screenplay doesn’t, and in fact shouldn’t. That’s because it’s a blueprint to which the actors, director, dp and editor will add their skills. So I know as I write that my words will be filled out by many many people working on the project. This is not to dodge responsibility – if I write badly, then that’s on me – but screenplays are different than books. Books are commandments; screenplays are suggestions.

Which brings me to character. You all may have a point here about me missing the boat on showing who Conan is, but I have to admit, this never seemed to be a great character showcase, even in the original. It has always been a little more poetic, perhaps even primal, than many of the other stories. Maybe that’s why it’s always been a favorite. Because let’s face it, Conan was going to rape this woman at the end, as was the character in the Greek myth it’s taken from. (Apollo chasing Daphne I think, who implores Zeus to save her, which he does by changing her into a tree).

However, I don’t think I painted Conan as some staggering dunce. I think your own fears and memories of the horrific earlier movies may be informing your reading.  I think at worse I underpainted him, which if so, is obviously a mistake. My viewpoint of Conan has never been that he is an oaf, so I will always imagine him with a fierce, intelligent face, whether he speaks much or not. (I’ll tell you this – in the script my partner Howard and I just wrote, he speaks quite a bit. I’ll bet half of you complain that it’s too much. :-) So perhaps my mistake is this – I wanted to enter the world myself and see where it took me. In doing so, I paid little attention to convincing readers who Conan was, because I already knew. (For myself of course, not in any pretentious, ‘only I know who Conan is.’)

And the last thing I ‘ll say is this, and I think it’s very important. (For the three of you still reading.) There were a few comments about not straying from the material. I mean, not at all. I can’t be any clearer about anything than about this: you don’t really want that.  Here’s why.

Point of No Return

If you haven’t seen Point, it’s based on La Femme Nikita (great movie!) by Luc Besson. Point is awful. Why? Because it is literally a shot by shot remake of Nikita. Someone evidently thought the original was so good it shouldn’t be fucked with. Well they were wrong. The remake became a lifeless mess.  This is because the artists had abdicated their responsibility – to interpret the world through their own lens.

I bring this up to make a point that being too faithful to the original can be stifling. It squashes artistry. And please, make no mistake – filmmakers are artists. Every one of them wants to bring their POV, their life, their words, their gestures, to bear to create something new, fresh, alive.  If they feel too constrained by the material, they won’t bring their best game to bear. And then you get Point of No Return. A dead thing.

Please understand – you will never have the REH that is in your head. You wouldn’t get it even if you wrote it and directed it yourself. But that doesn’t have to be a bad thing. If the artists are good, they will take the essence and the soul of Conan and give you something different… and fun as hell. If they’re not good, then faithfulness to the material won’t matter anyway. From my own experience I can tell you I didn’t miss Tom Bombadil in LOTR but hated The Shining… the first time. Now I think it’s a marvelous movie.

Allow me to clarify a couple of things. First, none of what I said is to convince you that what I wrote is ‘good’. Either you liked it or you didn’t. I only hope that some of my words can perhaps frame` the upcoming movies a little for you so you have a better chance at enjoying them. And this should go without saying, but it seems little does these days: REH’s source material is marvelous. Wonderful words and images and characters that have survived a long year. I am merely pointing out that purism is both impossible and undesirable. Some of you asked a very interesting question: ‘why do you think you’re better than the material?’ Truly, nothing could be further from the truth. Shakespeare wasn’t thinking he was the cat’s pyjamas when he cherrypicked Gesta Danorum for Hamlet. Peter Jackson didn’t think “whoo, glad I was able to clean up Tolien’s mess”. Barbara Eden didn’t think Jeannie Riley’s song was shit when she starred in Harper Valley PTA. Anyone who adapts is doing so precisely because they were inspired and thought the original material was worthy of retelling in another medium.

Wow. Longwinded. Sorry. But then, you didn’t have to read this far if you didn’t want to. If you did, hopefully I was helpful. If not, well that’s on me, too…

26 Responses to “Conan – A Little Conversation About The Frost Giant’s Daughter”

  1. Thanks for the long explanation, though i would like to add something to the nature of a screenplay you mentioned (being a suggestion and all):

    You know REH, you have a good image of Conan in your head and i really think it’s very important, that you use the screenplay to suggest “the right” (i know thats always subjective) Conan in the screenplay… because the short-worded, grunting Conan that immediately spawned Ahnuld fear in all our brains will exactly do that in the minds of all the creative people you spoke about in your text.

    They will be heavily influenced by the old movies, they will not be able to get that out of their minds and presenting them a creative suggestion, that spawns Ahnuld Conan images, will not make sure we, you, the rest of the world will see a REH Conan (or something similar) on screen.

    So while i clearly understand the notion of a screenplay being merely a suggestion i think it’s an important tool to define a character, so that an actor can see from the dialogue his character has in the screenplay, what character he is going to play. Some actors and directors (sorry to say that, but Nispel doesn’t come across as the “faithful adaptor” type) are ignorant enough to never read up on the original stories, so all they ever have as an influence is the screenplay.

    As you said, we cannot convince you to do your job differently, you have been doing it your way for many years, but i do hope, that some of the thoughts we have conjured from the depth of our REH lovers mind will resonate with you and influence you future work… maybe for the better who knows :D

  2. outlanderthemovie Says:

    Hey – thanx for the reply. I’m not exactly sure why you took my words to mean that I was intractable. I did in fact mean what I said that I took the comments to heart. If a comment is good, it makes me see something I missed or was looking at from an insufficient angle. I wrote a few months back that I actually changed part of a scene in Conan 2 because of someone’s comment. And you are absolutely right – especially in a case like this – the screenplay leads the vision. At the bottom of my reply here I will repost the physical description we gave Millennium early in the process. It’s short, but you’ll see we were definitely trying to carve the vision.

    And I will reiterate – there is no lack of Conan dialogue in our present draft. Might even be a bit much. We’ll see. We went with the thought that in certain situations, Conan uses words and the tempo of the conversation like a weapon, keeping the other person (a woman, in this case) off-balance. (Don’t read into that that we wrote him as some Hyborian Oscar Wilde. It’s not a quippy movie.)

    So, from the Bible we wrote:

    CASTING CONAN

    He is a big man. But he is not a bodybuilder.

    Well over six feet tall, with longish, jet-black hair. His eyes are a cool burning blue. His physique is absolutely impressive, but is the product of a life lived, not the gym. He has many scars and calloused hands. He is handsome, not pretty, in the way of Russell Crowe. Poised, muscled, his whole body seems ready for action even when relaxed.

    Conan has an air of command and a perfect sense of self. Not egotism – he just knows who he is. He owns a room simply by walking in. Think Clint Eastwood. In fact, the closest to this character might very well be Eastwood’s Man With No Name. (Although not as self-consciously and laconically cool) People notice him and either step back without thinking or are drawn inescapably towards him by the pull of his commanding presence.

    Lastly, Conan is not dumb. In fact he has a great deal of native intelligence as well as curiosity. He should probably not have an accent as that will recall the earlier portrayal, but his voice should be on the lower side of the register.

    • I like your excellant casting description of Conan. Maybe you should post the entire “conversation” essay at the Conan Forum. They we have lots of long-winded stuff.

  3. […] Dirk Blackman was so kind to write a very long and explanatory answer to the many comments he got on his blog and in the REH Forum. I think it’s great of him (and not unexpected, he […]

  4. Thank you for posting your thoughst and approach to the material, I certainly feel much better seeing your point of view.

    I am also very relieved that Conan will be written as naturally intelligent, the Ahnuld Conan can only be washed away by an explicitly intellugent Conan on screen. The segment of casting Conan was a great read (but I do think he should have an accent, reflecting the fact that Conan is an outlander, northerner, kozac and what have you not), I hope that or something pretty much identical to it was given to the casting director of the upcoming movie?

  5. Thank you very much for the short script and for this interesting article, Dirk.

  6. I liked the script. Would love to see this as a short digital animated movie. Just as the REH story made you feel cold when reading it, I think you captured that exactly.

    In regards to the changes, I would have liked more dialogue, but this is not necessarily the REH story to emphasize dialogue. It is more about the feel of the frozen landscape and lost senses after a battle.

    Here is a reality check I once told a friend about Frost Giant’s Daughter: Go to Alaska and sit on a glacier with no one around for miles. Smack yourself in the head with a brick, if that is too harsh…drink 3 bottles of wine. Have a super model then pop out and dance around you in a bikini tempting you relentlessly.

    That should give you an idea of where Conan’s head is at.

    The fact that Conan is the sole survivor and lives to slay two gigantic foes is what makes him cool. It is also cool that Atali has clearly charmed many men before this and this time she chose the wrong guy to mess with.

    If the movie can capture the feel, theme and moods that go along with the primal world of Hyboria…as Conan fans we’ll be fine. You said it yourself that he talks much more in the script. I’m glad. Let’s just hope they find an actor that can be intelligent while still being a barbarian.

    nice work. it made a slow day much more interesting.

  7. I just want to say that La Femme Nikita is one of my favorite films (as is Léon – The Professional). I can almost see what’s going through the-people-who-remade-it’s heads… If you have watched the DVD with english dubbing, the dubbing is ***TERRIBLE***. It doesn’t even match the flavor or even meaning of the French dialogue. The proper english subtitles are quite a bit better and it’s actually amusing to watch it dubbed and with the subtitles because those don’t actually match on the disk I have. So somewhere, someone thought that it might be good to try and have the same film exactly but with people actually speaking english. Sounds alright, but something just doesn’t work. It’s almost litteraly laughable in Point of no Return.

  8. I picture Conan portrayed as a ” yojimbo ” type. The baddest guy in town, but also the smartest. If he can’t right out slay you, he will out think you.

  9. Thank you profoundly for this opportunity for us to affect the creation of this wonderful undertaking. Conan, to me, is humanity at it’s perfection.

    Now, in the “Vale of Lost Women” Conan told Livia “…I never forced a woman against her consent.”

    So, now without the knock on the head, chasing Atali makes Conan only a rapist. The point is Conan was unconscious (remember the otherwordly feel)
    and he brought something back from another realm.

  10. Conan is not a rapist because he chase Atali. Atali is not a Woman, is an evil spirit that tried to KILL him. The question is not if Conan was unconscious or not. The question is that Atali deserve it!!

  11. From Howard description of Conans mind, he was totally out of control sexually speaking. Like the people who lost themselves in “The Parfume” by Patrick Süßkind, where they loose themselves and have sex on the street, ignoring gender, age, looks anything.

  12. Atali cast some sort of glamor on Conan, affecting him with irresistible lust, to seduce him into chasing her. REH’s dialog and description makes this clear; that’s why it can’t be shortchanged. For those who can’t figure it out from Conan’s and Atali’s actions, there is the dialog of the Aesir to make it even more pellucid.

  13. I understand that Atali had bewitched Conan and drove him mad with lust. What about when he was going to take his reward from Livia afte he delievered her the head of her oppressor? In the end, his cooler head prevailed and he didn’t force himself upon her. However, when he first approached the hut with the head, the scene was fraught with menace. at that moment, he may well have taken what was promised.

  14. Fafnir, you’re talking about a different story (Vale of Lost Women, right?) But I’m not comparing different stories, I’m talking about what Howard intended to convey with FGD, and how this might or might not be conveyed by a screenplay transcription of FGD.

  15. To choose FGD as a movie would be hard, since it’s pretty short as it is. One answer would be to flesh out some of the supporting characters and situations hinted at by the original. Njord’s party and their ambush could form the prologue. Their conversation could build the situation and explain some of the theme without a standard sidekick for Conan to talk to. They could refer to Conan obliquely as “him” and point out barbarian values such as keeping thier promises in the face of certain death, etc.

    Just bouncing some ideas around.

  16. Frost Giant’s Daughter I think was a bad choice to start from. You should really try a God in a Bowl, Shadows in Zamboula, or Red Nails. They’re not too long and have much better characters and dialog.

    Your adaptation of Frost Giant’s Daughter was good, but I guess what I’d really like to see is how dialog, intrigue, and other characters are handled more. Conan often used his wits first to gain any advantage before going into Barbarian mode and I’d really be interested to see how that would be handled.

    Writing something that’s almost all action would be a mistake. The build up is often more important than the climax and will often make the ending more epic.

    It’ll be interesting to see how you guys handle the Conan universe. Since REH’s work wasn’t liniar I wonder if you’ll start at the beginning and jump around or try and create a timeline narrative.

    I really wish you luck! Don’t let us fans get you too down. Keep at it!

  17. Great script! I like it and do understand some of the creative choices that have been and sometimes must be made when adapting literature to screen. That said, I have one comment which I do think is of some importance to Conan’s fans:
    -To me, this story is not about Conan’s superhuman strength or intellect like most other stories, but about something far more admirable and yet often forgotten: his internal drive. After the battle with the brothers, the next chase scene is quite long (not on paper but in terms of the duration of the action). First, the girl has finally gotten scared and started to take Conan seriously after the death of her brothers and so she flees for real this time intent on getting as far always as possible. She succeeds for a while but Conan’s drive propels him to keep going despite the greatly increasing distance between them, at a pace much slower than her but implacable nonetheless. Eventually, the distance starts shrinking, the girl’s panic and Conan’s lust both grow to a crescendo. Conan knew all along that the girl is just prolonging the inevitable because even in his weakened state no living thing can be his match, once again, not because of physical ability or smarts, but because he has something nobody else has: mind over body. Set your mind to something and it will happen. Nobody can stand in his way, no odds are insurmountable; he is the Tsunami coming to get anyone who would cross him or in this case mock him. Conan is an animal, a barbarian, not a civilized person, not a perfumed, limp Aquilonian or Nemedian aristocrat, but a man of the cold, grey mountain. He is certainly very far from our image of a “good guy” despite the obvious honor code that guides his actions. An animal doesn’t know right and wrong, but has needs and wants and, in this animal’s case, the ability to satisfy these needs and wants against all objections. How many normal men do you know that will ignore pain, cold, fear of being lost or entrapped, just so that they can get their whim: the girl that mocked them? If you do, they are probably in prison, this being the 21st century and not Hyborea.
    To recap, to say that Conan is stubborn, dark, and melancholic is a euphemism, but, for me, this did not come through clearly enough in this script to do justice to Robert E. Howard’s character. Make it darker, scarier, more disturbing, and yet more admirable. I believe the omission is easy to fix simply by spending more time (perhaps a montage implying time passage) of the last desperate chase scene where he maintains a steady slow pace while the girl slowly surrenders to panic. A scene done to death in every horror movie there is but perhaps somewhat unacceptable for the general audience confused by the previous movies that Conan is a good guy instead of a monster. Well, he could have been a monster very easily if only he had such inclinations on a particular day. The line between superhero and villain is not clear in Conan’s case, just like for Batman, Blade, Spoon, and so many others.
    Can’t wait to read more scripts and see the movies. Not only because I grew up with the Robert E. Howard but also due to the fact that they will be partly shot in my home country: Bulgaria.

  18. By the way, I liked “Point of no return,” and I especially like the 5 seasons of the TV show “La Femme Nikita.” I believe, there is nothing wrong with either giving your own spin on someone’s ideas or following them to the letter. But as you say, the essence of the author’s intent has to be preserved fully even if you decide to change the gender of the lead character, make them a different race, age, or what have you. If we don’t even preserve the essense, then we shoud say our work is simply influenced by so and so, make it our own, and create a new character altogether. There is a lot to be learned from Robert B. Parker’s comments on how his characters Jesse Stone and Spenser were both brought to TV by Tom Seleck and the late Robert Urich. Both are characters not unlike Conan in strength, acumen, and melancholy, but minus his animal qualities that are being frowned upon in civilized, lawful, politically-correct society with all its hypocricy, fake religion, and sterility (both metephoric sterility and the literal, low-testosterone epidemics in the West over the last 2 decades).

    • Well, a recent draft of the script by Doppenheimer has leaked online, and there is really only one thing to say about it:
      It is an unmitigated disaster.

      Why they would chose their early draft over yours is completely and utterly beyond me.

      The one gleaming ray of hope that remains is that you are the doing the much needed rewrite. You have the heart in the right place, and a MUCH better understanding of both Conan and REH than Doppenheimer, who seemingly has none.

      Fingers crossed you have been asked to and can help out here.

  19. “I bring this up to make a point that being too faithful to the original can be stifling. It squashes artistry. And please, make no mistake – filmmakers are artists. Every one of them wants to bring their POV, their life, their words, their gestures, to bear to create something new, fresh, alive. If they feel too constrained by the material, they won’t bring their best game to bear. And then you get Point of No Return. A dead thing.”

    This is a quote which proves my point of writers who adapt book-to-movie using the words unfilmable for a reason and I feel the point of no return was a bad example because the filmmakers didn’t take shot-for-shot from a book. they took it from a movie shot-for-shot.

    I read your explanation of the changes and I didn’t feel (imo) that they were really good reasons. if you are inspired by the story to do a short teaser at the beginning then why imply FGD at all. make it a different story to fulfill your want for changes to fit your teaser instead of changing the original. This way the original could be told as the original author intended.

    This is me asking question in a conversational tone so please don’t take it that I am trying to pick a fight or being rude.

    I believe that being inspired from a story to make a story of your own is good and your script is good but to put FGD title is the mess up. change location, make it a desert just after a battle or the jungle in a battle with the picts. change Atalis name altogether, make Atalis brothers the grey apes or thog

    • outlanderthemovie Says:

      Okay, since you wanted to talk conversationally, that’s cool. So here’s the skinny. I did FGD because I WANTED to. I personally, as a writer, artist, WANTED to. I neither saw, nor see, any reason to limit myself in what I write or in where I take my inspiration. I wish I could at least get some of you to acknowledge that the art of Conan did not end with REH. It BEGAN with him. It spawned paintings and drawings and comic books and pastiches and dictionaries and encyclopedias and film and cartoons and TV shows. Not all of them were good. Some sucked. Some were outstanding. By no means do you have to think mine was good. You are entitled to think it’s a steaming pile of dog shit. But what I would argue is this – you are NOT entitled to tell me I shouldn’t write my own take on FGD. I as an artist, was inspired by it and wanted to try my hand at a short version of it. (Think of it this way – how many versions of The Last Supper, or The Pieta do you think were created? Thousands. No one ever said to the artists “I don’t like your treatment of the last supper, change the setting to China.” They may have said – ‘your version is dog shit’, which is a legitimate opinion. And again, please remember why I did this – as a teaser, in the hopes of getting more material in front of the REH lovers as i know that FGD will NEVER be a movie in itself as it’s too short. I was also stretching my muscles to get in the mood for writing the script itself. Now when and if it ever gets filmed, THEN you can tell me whether I blew it or not. I don’t think I did, in fact, I’m damn happy with the draft as it stands (which I’m sure will leak in the next few months) But I can tell you without question, I will get a storm of criticism for every addition, every change, every line of dialogue because nothing can ever EXACTLY fit the vision that true fans have. Hell, I’m a true fan and I can guarantee you that even if they shot my script line for line, I’d be pissed at something in the finished film. A bad prop, Conan’s hair, the music, the lighting, a misplaced grin. Who knows? Anyway, thanks for reading FGD and writing to me. I mean that.

      • I got my first read of Conan from Savage Sword. I watched the movies, TV series and read the books from everyone except REH until a little over a year ago so I do understand that the adventures didn’t end with REH.
        I get your meaning of you wanting to do FGD, even a short teaser which I think is a great idea. I by no means meant to imply that I could tell you what you can or can not write about. I to am an artist an I get my inspirations from many different sources. but other than the names and location,imo, it really doesn’t have anything to do with FGD. which was why I was saying why not say inspired by instead of FGD adaption. Maybe it is me but imo to adapt a book to a movie is putting the book in script form. based on means loosely based on a story, but then again I am not the one working as a script writer :).
        I think your practice script is good. a couple of things could be reworked to fit the character more, or at least from my understanding of the character. as an adaption. in my opinion it failed but I think it is very good as an inspired by piece. I just feel that there was so much more to FGD than chase/fight/chase/rape/chase and it is only natural that people will compare it to the original if you put the original title on it.
        I agree that FGD is way to short to be made into a movie by itself but making it part of a whole movie could get the whole story up. Could you imagine what people would say right now if “Queen of the Black Coast” was made into a movie? I just mean the general public, not the people who read the story. The Story was butchered to make CTB and don’t get me wrong, I enjoyed CTB, hell I have the VHS still. it wasn’t a Conan movie to me but it was a hell of a movie.
        Thanks for taking the time to reply to my first response and once I finish my version of FGD: animated then you can lay into me as well :)

  20. matsellah Says:

    To tell you the truth, I didn’t mind the exercise you brought. We all need to be able to stretch out, now and then. Hell, ‘reach’ might be a better word; otherwise we become stale.

    I think REH devotees (such as myself) are gun-shy. You point this out by using Point Of No Return as an example, saying “Point is awful. Why? Because it is literally a shot by shot remake of Nikita.” And you’re 100% – absolutely right.

    The difference here is, there hasn’t been an ‘Original’ Conan movie. That’s our viewpoint. CtB wasn’t an origins movie. It was… well, I’m not really sure what it was. Only John Milius can answer that question.

    So I ask that you understand your readers, I don’t think anyone would have a problem with screenwriters taking artistic license with Howard’s work… AFTER the origin has been correctly established on the screen. Let the uninitiated see the real deal first, then embellish.

    What’s there to lose? Either way, most of the potential moviegoers are going to see a character they’ve never seen before.

    Unless… there’s an industry consensus that Howard’s version won’t sell and theirs will. After all, Hollywood has an impeccable track record of knowing what the paying customer wants.

    Beyond all that, you’re a hell of a writer. I enjoy reading your work.

    Oh. And there’s more than 3 of us.

  21. Hola, yo opino que se devería rodar en los mismos exteriores que en “Conan the Barbarian” son ideales y perfectos, a los Almerienses nos alegraria un montón.

  22. Hello, I think that it should roll in the same field as in “Conan the Barbarian” (Almería – Spain) are ideal and perfect, we would be happy to Almerienses a lot.

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